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Forum Thread: Have you a Brother printer? / Flash update problems

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taffy078 Have you a Brother printer? / Flash update problems
Contributor 14th Jun, 2014 10:00
Ranking: 408
Posts: 1,335
User Since: 26th Feb, 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: UK
Last edited on 14th Jun, 2014 10:02

Further to mtodorov's thread http://secunia.com/community/forum/thread/show/150...

Secunia's auto-updater never works on most Adobe program, never works on Flash so I remove the old version using Revo Free and then go to the Adobe site to install the new version. This is what I did yesterday on my IE11/Win8 laptop but after rescanning with PSI, there was still some of the old Flash program left.

Secunia showed it was in my Brother printer's Control Center 3. I have asked Brother when they will be updating it but in the meantime I have Flash v13.x on my PC. Do any of you have a Brother unit? Have you got the same problem? If so I suggest that you too contact Brother.

Another two quick points:
(1) We all (should) know that using the Adobe site for updates brings the risk of having Google Chrome installed unless you keep an eye out for the option not to have it. Yesterday, the Adobe Flash update auto-installed McAfee - there was no option to remove it nor any indication it was bundled. This sharp & annoying practice should be banned imho.
(2) I had suggested that Secunia should remove Adobe programs, especially Flash, from its auto-update process given that it always seems to hang up on "Waiting", per mtodorov's thread. But the auto-update worked seamlessly (with no hidden programs bundled) on my XP/IE8 desktop! Why that but not on the ultra-modern Win8/IE11?

(Edit:) PS I twice tried to post this yesterday (on my laptop) but when I hit 'Create' it simply took me to a blank new "Create Thread" screen. Did anyone else have this?


--
taffy078, West Yorkshire, UK

Desktop: Compaq Presario (OEM) 32 bit / AMD Athlon / 2 GB RAM
XP Home - SP3/ IE8/ Norton IS - Secunia PSI v2.0.0.3003

Laptop: Win 7 / IE11 / PSI v2.0.0.3003

Maurice Joyce RE: Have you a Brother printer? / Flash update problems
Handling Contributor 14th Jun, 2014 10:49
Score: 11711
Posts: 8,954
User Since: 4th Jan 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: UK
Flash on Windows 8/8.1.1 is managed by Microsoft & is auto updated via Windows Update.

It was updated last Tuesday via KB2966072.Some files are not stored in "conventional areas" hence difficulty in removal & the fact that Secunia cannot track it correctly.

Thank goodness Secunia have nothing to do with Flash on Windows 8.
.
Why are you trying to remove update it manually?



--
Maurice

Windows 7 SP1 64 Bit OS
HP Intel Pentium i7
IE 11 for Windows 7 SP1
16GB RAM
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steffens RE: Have you a Brother printer? / Flash update problems
Member 14th Jun, 2014 23:50
Score: 47
Posts: 62
User Since: 25th Jul 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: US
If you download your Flash updates from this page...
<https://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer/distrib...>
then you can avoid all the cruft that's commonly bundled with them when you download from the defailt Flash download page. (Ignore the boilerplate about having a license agreement on file.)

Also recommended by Krebs on Security <http://krebsonsecurity.com/>:
"The most recent versions of Flash are available from the Adobe download center, but beware potentially unwanted add-ons, like McAfee Security Scan). To avoid this, uncheck the pre-checked box before downloading, or grab your OS-specific Flash download from
<https://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer/distrib...>."
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taffy078 RE: Have you a Brother printer? / Flash update problems
Contributor 15th Jun, 2014 08:54
Score: 408
Posts: 1,335
User Since: 26th Feb 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: UK
@ maurice. It's been a well-known problem for some time now, Maurice, that many users get the PSI auto-update freezing on the "awaiting update" stage for some Adobe products, especially Flash***. I've tried several times to update it manually from Adobe without first removing the old version but always had problems, which is why I now remove the old one first. Perhaps it's to do with the fact that I've been downloading it from a different page to that suggested by steffens (next). Next time, I won't remove it first and then see what happens.
*** Yet it auto-updated on my XP desktop. with no problems at all.

@ steffens. Thanks for that - I'll use that link for Flash from now on. There must be similar links for the other Adobe products such as Air so I'll check out those later.

I got my update from this site (recommended by someone here) - http://www.adobe.com/downloads.html

Selecting Flash just now took me to http://get.adobe.com/flashplayer/ where there is now a new optional offer pre-ticked to include Google Chrome. This wasn't there at the time I updated it. I've not tried it to see if McAfee is still tucked in there.

--
taffy078, West Yorkshire, UK

Desktop: Compaq Presario (OEM) 32 bit / AMD Athlon / 2 GB RAM
XP Home - SP3/ IE8/ Norton IS - Secunia PSI v2.0.0.3003

Laptop: Win 7 / IE11 / PSI v2.0.0.3003
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Maurice Joyce RE: Have you a Brother printer? / Flash update problems
Handling Contributor 15th Jun, 2014 10:00
Score: 11711
Posts: 8,954
User Since: 4th Jan 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: UK
I think you have completely missed my point.

Thankfully Secunia does not update Flash on Windows 8 or 8.1.1 nor is any user intervention required. It is managed via Windows Update. The KB to look for this month is 2966072.

https://support.microsoft.com/kb/2966072

http://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player/kb/flash-playe...


Uninstalling Flash from a PC other than Windows 8 is easy when the proper uninstaller is used and ALL the caveats are met which can be seen here:

http://helpx.adobe.com/flash-player/kb/uninstall-f...

The same rules on apply with installation - to properly remove all the old version prior to a reinstall Adobe requires ALL programmes & browsers using Flash to be closed. Failure to do so could/will result in dross being left behind.

Whether Secunia's delay is for users to meet that requirement is a mystery.It works like a charm on my Windows 7 Net book which has everything closed down when not in use.





--
Maurice

Windows 7 SP1 64 Bit OS
HP Intel Pentium i7
IE 11 for Windows 7 SP1
16GB RAM
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steffens RE: Have you a Brother printer? / Flash update problems
Member 15th Jun, 2014 15:39
Score: 47
Posts: 62
User Since: 25th Jul 2009
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Location: US
on 15th Jun, 2014 08:54, taffy078 wrote:
... @ steffens. Thanks for that - I'll use that link for Flash from now on. There must be similar links for the other Adobe products such as Air so I'll check out those later. ...


If there are, I haven't been able to find them. And Krebs has never listed them in any of his blog posts regarding Adobe security fixes. But then Krebs recommends removing Air and Shockwave unless known to be needed. (Have done on spouse's machine; can't remove on daughter's, since some of her favorite games require them.)
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taffy078 RE: Have you a Brother printer? / Flash update problems
Contributor 16th Jun, 2014 10:04
Score: 408
Posts: 1,335
User Since: 26th Feb 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: UK
@ Maurice: My point is that if a PSI scan finds an old version of Flash, the Scan Results tells you what to do to correct it, under 'Install Solution'. That worked flawlessly on my ancient XP/IE8 pc but it froze on my Win7/IE11 pc at the "awaiting download" stage. And it's clear from the many number of threads here, and comments made by other users, that I'm not the only one who has this problem mtodorov has, for example.

My failure to uninstal the old version completely was in no way connected to not meeting all the caveats, Maurice - it was I presume because Flash is bundled within my printer's software.

Regarding closing all browsers & programs, at the back of my mind is that PSI uses one of the Adobe products - although I always close PSI when updating Adobe stuff, I can't remember which program it is and it's not shown in "system requirements".

@steffens: your point about not needing Air & Shockwave is well-made and I have removed them on a number of occasions - but there's always some program that must have it. It's not games but I'll make a note for next time.

--
taffy078, West Yorkshire, UK

Desktop: Compaq Presario (OEM) 32 bit / AMD Athlon / 2 GB RAM
XP Home - SP3/ IE8/ Norton IS - Secunia PSI v2.0.0.3003

Laptop: Win 7 / IE11 / PSI v2.0.0.3003
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Maurice Joyce RE: Have you a Brother printer? / Flash update problems
Handling Contributor 16th Jun, 2014 11:22
Score: 11711
Posts: 8,954
User Since: 4th Jan 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: UK
Last edited on 16th Jun, 2014 11:33
You are still missing the point. You have posted about Windows 8 IE11.

If I am reading it correctly your post for those that use either Windows 8 or 8.1.1 your post is misleading.

Secunia does not asset track Adobe Flash on IE 10/11 on these OS's nor has it got the ability to update them.

I have made no reference to bundled software - that is a matter for Brother to sort out or you to remove the software - the printer should only require the drivers to work - the remainder can be uninstalled.

My reply covers this:

2) I had suggested that Secunia should remove Adobe programs, especially Flash, from its auto-update process given that it always seems to hang up on "Waiting", [b]per mtodorov's thread. But the auto-update worked seamlessly (with no hidden programs bundled) on my XP/IE desktop! Why that but not on the ultra-modern Win8/IE11?[/b]

Secunia V 2 & 3 does NOT use anything Adobe - why would it matter anyway?

In a nutshell Adobe advise this for a trouble free updating https://forums.adobe.com/message/5266110#5266110
hence I created this post a very long time ago for those that find updating Flash challenging.


UPDATING THE STANDALONE ADOBE FLASH PLAYER

THIS METHOD SHOULD NOT BE USED IF USING WINDOWS 8/8.1.1 IE10 or IE 11 - THE UPDATES ARE MANAGED BY MICROSOFT VIA WINDOWS UPDATE

1. Download & SAVE this/these to desktop.

To update IE using the IE Browser click here:

https://www.adobe.com/products/flashplayer/distrib...

2. The installer will appear on the desk top. THE IMPORTANT BIT - Before agreeing to install Flash check these programmes are completely shut down (use the Task Manager if necessary (CTRL+SHIFT+ESC) to COMPLETELY EXIT these processes if running)):
a. All Browsers.
b. Windows Messenger.
c. Incredimail.
d. All Adobe Products.
e. PSI - Unless using version 2 or version 3
f. Microsoft Skype & Plus! For Skype
g. Microsoft Money

3. The new install will then remove all old files during the update process.

4. Complete a full PSI rescan & all should be in order.


Optional - Go to Start>Control Panel>click the Flash Player (32 Bit) icon>check the settings are to your requirements & clear out any dross.

Last Reviewed 09:45 16/06/2014


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Maurice

Windows 7 SP1 64 Bit OS
HP Intel Pentium i7
IE 11 for Windows 7 SP1
16GB RAM
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taffy078 RE: Have you a Brother printer? / Flash update problems
Contributor 17th Jun, 2014 08:11
Score: 408
Posts: 1,335
User Since: 26th Feb 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: UK
Last edited on 17th Jun, 2014 08:12
In reply and in my defence:

"Secunia does not asset track Adobe Flash on IE 10/11 on these OS's nor has it got the ability to update them."
I use the Auto Update facility because, in Secunia's own words, it helps me "to automatically detect insecure programs, download the required patches from the vendors, and . . . installs the most important patches without further user interaction, thus relieving you from spending time on fetching the patches by yourself, and then manually installing them."

I really did not know that this does not apply to IE10/11 nor Adobe Flash - where is it mentioned anywhere in Secunia's manual. If Secunia does not update Flash, surely they should not include Flash updates in the Auto Update list, should they. This supports in my view the "set it & forget it" comments made on the 13th June by mtodorov in his Thread about Flash update issues - see below.

"I have made no reference to bundled software." It was me who said that. The old Flash is somewhere within the Brother software and it would not be sensible for me to try to remove it manually, which is why I contacted Brother. The Adobe removal software didn't remove it either which is why I used Revo.

"Secunia V 2 & 3 does NOT use anything Adobe - why would it matter anyway". Perhaps I was thinking back to v1 when it did matter. We had to close PSI before Flash would update.

The problem with Flash updates hanging or freezing on the "waiting for download" stage is well documented here with many threads. mtodorov's http://secunia.com/community/forum/thread/show/150... was the latest.

We always had major problems with Adobe updates (I remember your 'Chocolate teapot' comments) and so I always followed your guidelines, Maurice. The only reason that I don't now is the Auto Update facility.

If I really have misled any Brother user, I apologise, but I don't believe that I did. I was simply pointing out to them that if they are still having PSI finding dross it might be the Brother software in which it is embedded.

Edit: embolden

--
taffy078, West Yorkshire, UK

Desktop: Compaq Presario (OEM) 32 bit / AMD Athlon / 2 GB RAM
XP Home - SP3/ IE8/ Norton IS - Secunia PSI v2.0.0.3003

Laptop: Win 7 / IE11 / PSI v2.0.0.3003
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Maurice Joyce RE: Have you a Brother printer? / Flash update problems
Handling Contributor 17th Jun, 2014 09:19
Score: 11711
Posts: 8,954
User Since: 4th Jan 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: UK
You still appear to be confusing things - we are talking about IE 10 & 11 on WINDOWS 8/8.1.1 It is managed by Microsoft.

Windows Vista using IE8 or 9 & Windows 7 using IE9 or 10 or 11 must use the traditional method.

Secunia make it very clear that they do not (thank goodness) update anything Microsoft.

https://secunia.com/vulnerability_scanning/persona...

I will leave it at that & unsubscribe.



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Maurice

Windows 7 SP1 64 Bit OS
HP Intel Pentium i7
IE 11 for Windows 7 SP1
16GB RAM
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taffy078 RE: Have you a Brother printer? / Flash update problems
Contributor 17th Jun, 2014 11:48
Score: 408
Posts: 1,335
User Since: 26th Feb 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: UK
My sincere apologies, Maurice, for my mistake in typing Win8 in the body of my first post. I should have said Win7 of course, per my signature.

"Should have gone to Specsavers" or perhaps that's the effect that blasted Adobe updates have on me.

For Brother users with Win7, my initial advice remains.

--
taffy078, West Yorkshire, UK

Desktop: Compaq Presario (OEM) 32 bit / AMD Athlon / 2 GB RAM
XP Home - SP3/ IE8/ Norton IS - Secunia PSI v2.0.0.3003

Laptop: Win 7 / IE11 / PSI v2.0.0.3003
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Anthony Wells RE: Have you a Brother printer? / Flash update problems
Expert Contributor 18th Jun, 2014 11:30
Score: 2437
Posts: 3,323
User Since: 19th Dec 2007
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Last edited on 18th Jun, 2014 11:33
Hi ,

Just to add to the muddy mix :))

Excepting one time , I have never had a problem with the PSI (2.0.0.3003) updating AIR ; it just did the last one - I use "auto-update" with prompt .

Other Adobe products like Flash have never been that sure and always sooo slooow that I gave up wasting time and always manually update*** ; shockwave tended to be slightly better . I find the latest Adobe installers work perfectly well without any pre-uninstall .

EDIT***:only Firefox as Chrome and IE11 are auto-updated by themselves (W8.1.1.)

The "hidden" add-on bumpf are variable depending on which browser you use for which variety of Flash and from which country . The McAfferty or Norton - or whatever - is always shown and always pre-checked at the principal download site ; you must have missed it taffy .

Java would never update on my old XP and is not installed on my PC atm , so cannot say further

I have not used the PSI version 3 for many moons but I do believe that there are still many inadequacies in the Secunia SPS (silent installer) system and I worry for the innocent users who thinks it is "always" set and leave to be 100% up to date and cannot see/solve the typical Flash/Java problems that come up on the Forum .

There are also the "left behind dross" problems when using the PSI to update Mozilla stuff which do not/very very seldom occur with the software internal updater - always the preferred update method .

Take care

Anthony



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It always seems impossible until its done.
Nelson Mandela
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taffy078 RE: Have you a Brother printer? / Flash update problems
Contributor 19th Jun, 2014 10:05
Score: 408
Posts: 1,335
User Since: 26th Feb 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: UK
Thanks Anthony - most helpful.

Re "The McAfferty or Norton - or whatever - is always shown and always pre-checked at the principal download site ; you must have missed it taffy" - I have to say that I definitely didn't miss it as I always look out for that aspect when downloading Adobe stuff.

I clicked on Update Now (or whatever) and watched closely!

PS I did have a similar situation recently when I went on-line to record my gas & electricity meter readings. Up popped a window to the effect that I had to update Flash before continuing. I did and up came the add-ons menu which I carefully unchecked.

Afterwards I found that six unchecked utilities had been installed. Removing them with Revo took ages - there were many hundreds of components installed. Just shows (again) that Adobe don't give a toss for the public or for their 'reputation'..


--
taffy078, West Yorkshire, UK

Desktop: Compaq Presario (OEM) 32 bit / AMD Athlon / 2 GB RAM
XP Home - SP3/ IE8/ Norton IS - Secunia PSI v2.0.0.3003

Laptop: Win 7 / IE11 / PSI v2.0.0.3003
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Anthony Wells RE: Have you a Brother printer? / Flash update problems
Expert Contributor 19th Jun, 2014 11:40
Score: 2437
Posts: 3,323
User Since: 19th Dec 2007
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Location: N/A

Hi taffy ,

If any third party website asks you to update your software , as per your example with Flash , unless you leave/close that page and go directly to the software vendor , in this case adobe.com , then using the third party website update link could deliver anything and everything , as you have discovered .

Using a third party programme/website for updates adds to the complexity of the update itself and can easily bring other problems ; this includes the Secunia PSI .

What you got from your meter man was their contribution not Adobe's . They were exploiting the widespread use of Flash for their own benefit by bundling their stuff : as you know caveat emptor . Take it up with the meter maid !!

Take care

Anthony

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It always seems impossible until its done.
Nelson Mandela
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