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Forum Thread: JRE 6 U15

You are currently viewing a forum thread in the Secunia Community Forum. Please note that opinions expressed here are not of Secunia but solely reflect those of the user who wrote it.

This thread was submitted in the following forum:
Programs

Relating to this vendor:
Sun Microsystems
And, this specific program:
Oracle Java JRE 1.6.x / 6.x

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krw JRE 6 U15
Member 5th Aug, 2009 15:24
Ranking: 0
Posts: 9
User Since: 5th Jul, 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: N/A
Here again comes another issue with a program being patched from the vendor, and PSI still shows the program insecure. For me, the Secunia Software Inspector will officially be uninstalled after this posting. My thing is; software is either part of the solution, or part of the problem and its clear which side PSI takes. Therfore, so long everyone and remember to always patch...


bjm__ RE: JRE 6 U15
Member 5th Aug, 2009 15:32
Score: 64
Posts: 374
User Since: 9th Mar 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: US
Last edited on 5th Aug, 2009 15:36
Before you go...throwing in the towel just when stuff is starting to get interesting...

http://secunia.com/community/forum/thread/show/243...

Regards
bjm-
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wr RE: JRE 6 U15
Contributor 5th Aug, 2009 20:51
Score: 308
Posts: 736
User Since: 30th Mar 2008
System Score: 100%
Location: US
bjm I agree totally-why not stick around "to the bitter end?' Anyone can quit but when the going gets tough the tough go shopping.

Regards, wr

--
HP Pavilion Slimline s3020n
Windows Vista Home Premium SP2 32 bit
AMD 64 Athlon X2
Firefox 24.4.0 ESR
The weakest link of a computer system is always sitting in front of the monitor.
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genej313 RE: JRE 6 U15
Member 6th Aug, 2009 22:55
Score: 0
Posts: 9
User Since: 5th Dec 2008
System Score: N/A
Location: N/A
on 5th Aug, 2009 15:32, bjm__ wrote:
Before you go...throwing in the towel just when stuff is starting to get interesting...

http://secunia.com/community/forum/thread/show/243...

Regards
bjm-


Now I haven't looked at that yet and I will, but I share the original poster's frustration with psi. I used it long ago and got so frustrated with it, that I got rid of it and went back to using only the online scanner which NEVER did me wrong. This "solution" takes me to a page with about a 100 java downloads, without recommending which one I need to fix the problem psi sees. That is not helpful. Now I'll go look at the other thread.
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genej313 RE: JRE 6 U15
Member 6th Aug, 2009 23:00
Score: 0
Posts: 9
User Since: 5th Dec 2008
System Score: N/A
Location: N/A
on 5th Aug, 2009 15:32, bjm__ wrote:
Before you go...throwing in the towel just when stuff is starting to get interesting...

http://secunia.com/community/forum/thread/show/243...

Regards
bjm-


Okay, read it. Not helpful. When giving users, especially people who might be new to computers, or at least new to fixing them, not people who have been tinkering under the hood for 60 years, which I have, pointing them to threads that say "no solution" isn't a solution. PSI has its own issues and it is time Secunia admit that. It is a good product, but not perfect, and it would be helpful if it were written by someone who is a native English speaker, because a lot of the content can be taken in several ways, and when NONE of it works? PSI simply regurgitates what it said before. When, oh when, will true artificial intelligence makes its appearance? As long as it doesn't decide humans are the virus, I'm still waiting after 35 years tinkering with, building, maintaining, coding and otherwise putzing with pc's.
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markushuegli RE: JRE 6 U15
Member 6th Aug, 2009 23:27
Score: 7
Posts: 15
User Since: 2nd Dec 2008
System Score: N/A
Location: BO
I had no problems installing, perhaps because I use Win XP and Firefox. I am not a crack, but this is how it worked for me:

First go to Secunia and follow their instructions (like going to the Control Panel using "Add and Remove Programs" and uninstall everything Java). You can check that by looking at
• C:\Program Files\Java\jre6. There must no longer be a subfolder “bin”. And
• C:\WINDOWS\system32. There must no longer be a file “java.exe”
If there is, delete it by hand.

Next, you go to http://www.java.com/en/ and download the latest Version, taking care that you get it for the correct operating system (Windows in my case) and the correct browser (Firefox in my case), in this case 6.0.150.71 which is this exe: jxpiinstall.exe with a size of 698 KB, (it says "File Version 6.0.150.71") The 150 in the Version Number means 15.

When you run it, it goes to the Internet and downloads the Java Installer (lasts in my case about 4 min.), which then runs itself, goes to C:\Program Files\Java\ where it installs various folders and hundreds of files (the folder names are in my case the old ones, but the files inside them are all of today, i.e. 6.8.09).

It also goes to C:\WINDOWS\system32,
but there it installs only 6 files, you can tell sorting by the date and checking which are from today. (too bad I cannot include a screen shot here)

Secunia now reports no insecurity with Java. In the future, however, Java should offer an auto update, preferably before Secunia tells us that the current version is insecure.

Does this help.... or was I just lucky?


--
Win7 Ultimate 32-bit, Firefox, Office 2007 Enterprise
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genej313 RE: JRE 6 U15
Member 7th Aug, 2009 00:41
Score: 0
Posts: 9
User Since: 5th Dec 2008
System Score: N/A
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Helpful and not. I have several components, which may or may not be Java relate, in the ADD/REMOVE list:
J2SE Runtime Environment 5.0 update 10
J2SE Runtime Environment 5.0 Update 11

NEITHER of which has a remove or change button.

Then, I've got Java(TM) SE runtime environment 6 update 1

which also has no remove/change button. In my system 32 folder I have both Flash10b.ocx and Flash10c.ocx, flash c is correct. I've had this problem before but was able to rid my folder of the incorrect version, but this time no such luck. I do have a adobe flash uninstaller, in my private downloads folder which isn't doing it for me either. it uninstalls everything BUT 10b.ocx, then go reinstall 10c.ocx and that is fine, but 10b is still there and psi says it is insecure and its solution doesn't work. Doesn't get rid of the "bad" one. Very annoying. I pride myself on security, I use a variety of tools and have never had a virus or piece of malware breach my defenses - I subscribe to the Langalist which has merged with Windows Secrets and use their highest rated programs. They speak highly of the online version of Secunia but not so much PSI. There is a way, I have it stashed somewhere, of returning the remove button to the add/remove programs app but it involves messing around in the Registry, some manufactures, HP among them, don't enable remove buttons for some of the crap they pile onto new systems. I'd be happy as a goat in clover to get rid of 10b.ocx, changing attributes doesn't work. It is stuff like this that makes me long for DOS where you really COULD change attributes and get rid of files you didn't want. lol...
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Maurice Joyce RE: JRE 6 U15
Handling Contributor 7th Aug, 2009 11:12
Score: 11710
Posts: 8,954
User Since: 4th Jan 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: UK
Both Flash & JAVA can be easily removed but both Companies have not made it clear (& easy to find) how U do it.

I doubt whether Adobe will ever get their act together - all their offerings should be labelled Crapware. Sun JAVA have listened to customers & now include an Uninstaller for the previous version in their latest Update.

Flash.
To remove all versions of Flash from the C drive of your PC:


1. Download & use the flash Uninstaller from here:

http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?ext...

2. Reboot to clear out any left over ocx files.

3. Rescan using PSI - if there are any insecure Flash elements left what is the path to them? U should not proceed to stage 4 until all U clear any problems found.(The overview page may look a little odd because it uses Flash for the pictorials)

Note: At this stage,if PSI finds any elements of Flash in the C:\i386 folder or on any drive other than C that is an OEM reinstallation partition (normally D drive) or a drive U use solely to backup your work U can safely create an ignore rule.


4. Reinstall the latest Internet Explorer Flash Player from here:

http://www.filehippo.com/download_flashplayer_ie/

3A.If U are also using Firefox, Opera and other Gecko-based browsers U need this link as well:

http://www.filehippo.com/download_flashplayer_fire...

5. Go to add/remove & double check Adobe have not installed the useless Adobe Download Manager - if U see an entry remove it.

JAVA
Sun Java now include an Uninstaller with the download file for new updates which is the reason U cannot now see the old version.

That said, U may still have Java dross on your PC. If U want to check & remove any use this tool.

The tool will remove all old versions except the latest one installed & any useless files from previous installs.

http://raproducts.org/

*This link takes U to the site - select the Windows Binary (zip) option.
*This will lead U to Sourceforge.net to download it.
*Save the download to desktop.
*Activate the desktop zip icon which exposes the JAVARA EXE file. Click it
*Select RUN when asked.
*Select your language.
*The tool will now appear on the desktop - select REMOVE OLDER VERSIONS
*Once complete select ADDITIONAL TASKS - tick all boxes & activate.


* Right click on the desktop JAVARA zip file & delete it.

Future Updates Of JAVA.

Once all the old JAVA dross is removed future updating is easy.

Go to Start>Control Panel>click on the JAVA icon>select the Update tab>click the Update Now button.

Once the update is complete take the tick out of box marked "Check for updates auto ....." (This will prevent a useless file called JUSCHED from being place in your start up menu.

Run PSI & all aspects should register as secure.






--
Maurice

Windows 7 SP1 64 Bit OS
HP Intel Pentium i7
IE 11 for Windows 7 SP1
16GB RAM
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davidbassplayer RE: JRE 6 U15
Member 7th Aug, 2009 12:56
Score: 2
Posts: 20
User Since: 13th Feb 2008
System Score: N/A
Location: N/A
Last edited on 7th Aug, 2009 13:00
Replying to message from genej313 on 7th Aug, 2009 00:41
"I do have a adobe flash uninstaller, in my private downloads folder which isn't doing it for me either. it uninstalls everything BUT 10b.ocx, then go reinstall 10c.ocx and that is fine, but 10b is still there and psi says it is insecure and its solution doesn't work. Doesn't get rid of the "bad" one. Very annoying."

My recent problem in a nut-shell.

The uninstall program will not remove the insecure files of the old Flash version unless you stop every instance of programs that uses Flash. This includes all version of Firefox, PCI, and anything that uses Flash.

Then the remove, install new, and recheck with PCI works fine.

Three things:

1) Can someone tell me how to find what running program is using a particular program or DLL?

2) PCI SHOULD NOT USE ANY PROGRAM REQUIRIN UPDATE. YOU LISTENING SECUNIA?

3) "REMOVE PROGRAMS" SHOULD DETECT OTHER PROGRAMS USING WHAT THEY ARE TO REMOVE AND SUGGEST STOPPING THEM.
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Maurice Joyce RE: JRE 6 U15
Handling Contributor 7th Aug, 2009 18:45
Score: 11710
Posts: 8,954
User Since: 4th Jan 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: UK
David,
U are suggesting that after stage 2 of my post & a rescan by PSI the offending file was not deleted? Again there is a simple traditional way of removing stubborn files from any programme:

In this instance,once U have rebooted after stage 2 IMMEDIATELY navigate to:

Right click on Start>Explore>C:\Windows\System32\Macromedia\Flash - in theory that folder should be empty - if as U claim it is not delete the file.
The key to success is to navigate to the offending file immediately after a reboot. Nothing should be running unless the user has activated some oddity in the start menu.

Rescan with PSI and proceed with stages 3 & 4 if U want both versions of Flash.

1. Only U can really answer your question 1. U installed all the software therefore would know what it does & how it does it. For example, off the top of my head I know that PSI,Adobe Shockwave,Adobe Reader & an email programme called Incredimail use Flash.
2. Why should PSI not use Flash? It is their programme which we use free. Not ideal I agree but beggars cannot be choosers therefore doubtful they will listen to your shouting.
3. I totally agree. The fact the Adobe staff have difficulty spelling Adobe let alone produce a reasonable programme that can be easily used by all levels of expertise is totally beyond them.

I assume U have not rushed to the shops to buy the latest patented classic from Adobe?
The offer is buy one get one free of their Chocolate Heat Guard for a Weber BarBQ & a silver ashtray to affix to the handlebars of a Harley-Davison motorbike.

I am reliably inform the next offer is a Fog Knitting Machine!!!


--
Maurice

Windows 7 SP1 64 Bit OS
HP Intel Pentium i7
IE 11 for Windows 7 SP1
16GB RAM
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davidbassplayer RE: JRE 6 U15
Member 7th Aug, 2009 20:29
Score: 2
Posts: 20
User Since: 13th Feb 2008
System Score: N/A
Location: N/A
Last edited on 7th Aug, 2009 20:30
Maurice, I was reporting my experience. I was not saying anything about your method or that files are not cleared out after your step 2.

What I am saying is that if a program that uses Flash is running, Windows will not allow removal of 10b.ocx. Flash removal programs will fail.

The key to success is to have the program you want to remove _not_ in use.

Removing just after reboot may not work. On my system, PCI, and perhaps other programs that use Flash and Java are started in the boot process. Even if I reboot, I found that I had to kill those programs to remove old Flash, and there is no warning.

Perhaps a reboot to "Safe Mode"?

Java installers tell me what needs to be stopped. Adobe programmers "cannot spell Adobe" is about right. Their remove programs are unsatisfactory.

Hence my question about how to tell what program is using Flash or Java.

Your comments about my "shouting" at Secunia about using Flash are "right-on", and I'm sorry.

Warmest Regards
--David
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Maurice Joyce RE: JRE 6 U15
Handling Contributor 7th Aug, 2009 21:47
Score: 11710
Posts: 8,954
User Since: 4th Jan 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: UK
David,
Thank you. Not sure I worded my thread correctly either.

U raise an interesting point & I will do a few more tests on my "tester PC"

A process running at boot should not prevent the deletion of stubborn files. What will stop it is if an application is allowed to run.

I will reinstall an old Flash & see what happens. Back to the drawing I must go!

--
Maurice

Windows 7 SP1 64 Bit OS
HP Intel Pentium i7
IE 11 for Windows 7 SP1
16GB RAM
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GHAZZY2 RE: JRE 6 U15
Member 7th Aug, 2009 21:54
Score: 0
Posts: 1
User Since: 7th Aug 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: N/A
Last edited on 7th Aug, 2009 21:57
The problem with Sun Java updates seems to have been fixed... by Sun Microsystems, who may have been embarrassed beyond belief. the current download for JRE 6+ (Windows or Windows 64) will automatically update in the future, and runs in Windows 7 also.

In my case, the download deleted the old Java files for me. I'm running Windows Vista 64 Home Premium, but for some reason had installed the 32 bit version of Java. I discovered that the 64 bit Java update did not affect the old 32 bit version/s, but when I updated with the 32 bit download everything cleared up, and I am left with a 32 bit AND a 64 bit Java 6.15 on my system.
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DAVID BINKO RE: JRE 6 U15
Member 7th Aug, 2009 22:39
Score: 0
Posts: 45
User Since: 23rd Jun 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: Walford, Iowa, US
JRE 6 U15 and Adobe anything are still sore spots for some of us, I see.

Maurice, thanks for posting the Java cleanup link, I will use it. I will also disable the auto-update function. Makes sense, now that I think about it. I just updated to JRE 6 U15 and nominally threw out all the rest. I'm lucky- mine shows up as patched.

As to Adobe, I use FileHippo as my source for Flash Player and Reader.
I use FileHippo as my source of first resort generally. I have no truck with Adobe directly- I just need the products to suport my lifestyle.

I seldom uninstall a program without using Revo Uninstaller. I like their approach of first running whatever uninstall is available in the program and THEN doing their thing. With Flash Player, have the uninstaller in place, take my word for it.

I have had mixed results uninstalling programs in Safe Mode- sometimes it works, sometimes not. I have sometimes had to clean out a program
one file at a time by hand to subvert program protection, and Windows Media Player is immortal.

Just a few days ago I poormouthed PSI in the forum for not being able to realize that I had removed a program. My face is red. Secunia was picking up on a second parallel installation path nobody else picked up on. From now on I only pick up my filepaths from the 'Technical' button
for a program. In my computer System Restore shows three filepaths, for crying out loud.I know- I used one to create a desktop shortcut.

Here's wishing one and all a good weekend.

--
Dave Binko, a.k.a. Crash Computer
Windows XP Home Edition,SP3 (build 2600)
AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core processor: 1.9Ghz,896 MB RAM
Micro-Star International, Ltd MS-7253 1.00
Built by RJ Ender, Cedar Rapids, IA, July 2007
O.S. clean installed May 2009 after 2nd crash this year
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davidbassplayer RE: JRE 6 U15
Member 7th Aug, 2009 22:45
Score: 2
Posts: 20
User Since: 13th Feb 2008
System Score: N/A
Location: N/A
Last edited on 7th Aug, 2009 22:46
on 7th Aug, 2009 21:54, GHAZZY2 wrote:
The problem with Sun Java updates seems to have been fixed... by Sun Microsystems, who may have been embarrassed beyond belief. the current download for JRE 6+ (Windows or Windows 64) will automatically update in the future, and runs in Windows 7 also.

In my case, the download deleted the old Java files for me.
<SNIP>


I'm running XP SP3. The download did not delete the earlier Java versions, so says PCI. I used JavaRA which removed versions PCI did not complain about and the one PCI did complain about. I had no idea some of these were out there, but JavaRA kept a log (but no backup) After this, PCI gave me a clean bill of heath.

Warmest Regards, especially the faithful testers.
David
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Maurice Joyce RE: JRE 6 U15
Handling Contributor 7th Aug, 2009 22:59
Score: 11710
Posts: 8,954
User Since: 4th Jan 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: UK
David,
That would be correct. The new JAVA updater only removes the previous version. U still need JAVARA if U have not clered out previous dross.

Now U have cleared the dross U should be able to update using the JAVA icon in the Control Panel as described.



--
Maurice

Windows 7 SP1 64 Bit OS
HP Intel Pentium i7
IE 11 for Windows 7 SP1
16GB RAM
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RondaFitz42 RE: JRE 6 U15
Member 8th Aug, 2009 02:29
Score: 0
Posts: 1
User Since: 8th Aug 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: N/A
Thank you Maurice, for your clear, easy and simple fix for the Java update. Last time I had to update Java, I spent a crazy amount of time on their site trying very hard to figure out what the heck everything was and what I really needed. As far as I can tell, I never use Java, but some programs I run do. This time I tried the link in Secunia, selected the JRE, selected the platform, and was still offered three different choices with no clear way to determine which one was the best for me. It'd be nice if all the software companies would hire you to write clear and easy instructions on what to do to fix whatever needs fixing!

Warmest,
Ronda
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Dickens56 RE: JRE 6 U15
Member 8th Aug, 2009 03:07
Score: 0
Posts: 3
User Since: 27th Nov 2008
System Score: N/A
Location: N/A
I agree 100%, I have upgraded java to 6.0.150 from 6.0.140 but the scanner still says that the program is insecure along with shockwave that has been upgraded from 10.0.22.18 to 10.0.32.87, but secunia still reports old version as being on system even though the old version of these programs have been uninstalled. So I'm not sure how reliable and stable this program is either, they make all these claims about how great it is at finding insecure programs but how good can it be if it say that the program is not patched after reinstalling new versions. The next question is does anyone from Secunia even read this forum, as I see that I'm not the only one that is having this problem and there seem to be a definite lack of response from the company. It reminds me a lot of microsoft.
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Dickens56 RE: JRE 6 U15
Member 8th Aug, 2009 04:54
Score: 0
Posts: 3
User Since: 27th Nov 2008
System Score: N/A
Location: N/A
on 6th Aug, 2009 23:27, markushuegli wrote:
I had no problems installing, perhaps because I use Win XP and Firefox. I am not a crack, but this is how it worked for me:

First go to Secunia and follow their instructions (like going to the Control Panel using "Add and Remove Programs" and uninstall everything Java). You can check that by looking at
• C:\Program Files\Java\jre6. There must no longer be a subfolder “bin”. And
• C:\WINDOWS\system32. There must no longer be a file “java.exe”
If there is, delete it by hand.

Next, you go to http://www.java.com/en/ and download the latest Version, taking care that you get it for the correct operating system (Windows in my case) and the correct browser (Firefox in my case), in this case 6.0.150.71 which is this exe: jxpiinstall.exe with a size of 698 KB, (it says "File Version 6.0.150.71") The 150 in the Version Number means 15.

When you run it, it goes to the Internet and downloads the Java Installer (lasts in my case about 4 min.), which then runs itself, goes to C:\Program Files\Java\ where it installs various folders and hundreds of files (the folder names are in my case the old ones, but the files inside them are all of today, i.e. 6.8.09).

It also goes to C:\WINDOWS\system32,
but there it installs only 6 files, you can tell sorting by the date and checking which are from today. (too bad I cannot include a screen shot here)

Secunia now reports no insecurity with Java. In the future, however, Java should offer an auto update, preferably before Secunia tells us that the current version is insecure.

Does this help.... or was I just lucky?


This works great thanks, I was on the right track by removing the previous versions, I just forgot to look in the file manager to check for left over files, also this time I ran regedit and removed the thread that were left pver and everything went clickety boo, thanks for posting really appreciate it.
Dickens56

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markushuegli RE: JRE 6 U15
Member 8th Aug, 2009 19:42
Score: 7
Posts: 15
User Since: 2nd Dec 2008
System Score: N/A
Location: BO
Thank you, Dickens56, I am glad that my post helped you. Most of the time, forum users just shut up and go away as soon as someone has helped them solve their problem. It would be nice if more users would post "problem solved" messages.

--
Win7 Ultimate 32-bit, Firefox, Office 2007 Enterprise
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bjm__ RE: JRE 6 U15
Member 10th Aug, 2009 20:25
Score: 64
Posts: 374
User Since: 9th Mar 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: US
Maurice Joyce et al,

Small issue that may only be on my System with regard to Javara. Seeking comments. JRE 6 U15 is installed and Secure. This was my first experience with Javara as I only learned about it via this Forum. I checked my Directory before running Javara. I had dross from previous Java updates in user AppData/Program Files and SwSetup. Javara removed all older version dross as promised in Appdata and Program Files. I still had old SunJava setup app 1.4M from 2007 in SwSetup folder which I manually deleted. Just a fluke or should Javara also cleanup SwSetup folder. Do I need to risk looking for Java dross in my Registry.
I appreciate any comments are your experience with Javara and that it may be outside the Forum's rules to comment on other apps.

Regards
bjm-
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Maurice Joyce RE: JRE 6 U15
Handling Contributor 10th Aug, 2009 21:31
Score: 11710
Posts: 8,954
User Since: 4th Jan 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: UK
@bjm,
Happy to take a look - what is your path to SWsetup?

Looks like an Adobe Shockwave folder - I could be wrong.

--
Maurice

Windows 7 SP1 64 Bit OS
HP Intel Pentium i7
IE 11 for Windows 7 SP1
16GB RAM
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lisapie RE: JRE 6 U15
Member 12th Aug, 2009 09:10
Score: 0
Posts: 1
User Since: 10th Aug 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: N/A
I just followed your directions, and it worked perfectly! Thanks Lisa
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bjm__ RE: JRE 6 U15
Member 12th Aug, 2009 20:13
Score: 64
Posts: 374
User Since: 9th Mar 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: US
Hi Maurice,
Nice to visit with you...

I may have created my own issue with JavaRA by not following your instructions exactly.
http://raproducts.org/

*This link takes U to the site - select the Windows Binary (zip) option.
*This will lead U to Sourceforge.net to download it.
*Save the download to desktop.
*Activate the desktop zip icon which exposes the JAVARA EXE file. Click it
*Select RUN when asked.
*Select your language.
*The tool will now appear on the desktop - select REMOVE OLDER VERSIONS
*Once complete select ADDITIONAL TASKS - tick all boxes & activate.
* Right click on the desktop JAVARA zip file & delete it.
__________________________________________________ ______________
Too smart for my own good...
I downloaded and saved Zip to my Downloads Folder.
Extracted from Downloads Folder.
Ran JavaRa from my Directory.
I thought is was working...gave all the prompts...UI...etc. but, I was unable to open the JavaRa Log File. I still assumed it had worked. Exploring my Directory (as is my habit) I found dross. Initially C: > SwSetUp > Sun Java. Then more dross in User > AppData. I realized JavaRa faked me out. I tried Run As Administrator and this time the app worked. Generated Log. So, that's what happens when I do what I usually do with downloads and do not read and follow all instructions. I broke the commandment "Thou Shall Always Follow Instructions".
I got there...just took a detour.
I'll go stand in the corner now.
I'm so ashamed :-( I'm so ashamed :-((
Regards
bjm-
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genej313 RE: JRE 6 U15
Member 13th Aug, 2009 00:07
Score: 0
Posts: 9
User Since: 5th Dec 2008
System Score: N/A
Location: N/A
I thought I had ALL of that gunk removed, but this little wonder of a program found more and cleaned that up too. Thanks! :^) gene
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