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Forum Thread: Secunia vs. Kaspersky

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eljay376 Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Member 1st Nov, 2009 20:47
Ranking: 0
Posts: 16
User Since: 1st Nov, 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: Brighton, UK
Hi,

I am a new poster here, so please forgive any transgressions until i find my feet.

As well as Secunia PSI, I run Kaspersky Internet Security 2009.

The issue that I have is that whilst a Secunia gives a 100% intergrity score, Kaspersky finds that my Microsoft Office 2000 is not fully patched, citing several http://www.viruslist.com/advisories entries (35377, 29320, 29321, 35364 and 35377) as not being sorted.

When I attempt to download any of these patches, once I OK installation, I get an error message along the lines of "the expected version of the software was not found" (or close to that wording).

Paths are C:\program files\Microsoft Office\office\excel.exe
C:\program files\Microsoft Office\office\winword.exe
C:\program files\Microsoft Office\office\MSO9.DLL
C:\program files\Microsoft Office\office\OUTLLIB.DLL

I would like to know if anyone else has had this problem and has anyone resolved that if there were unpatched items Secunia would have patched them?

Best regards - eljay.

Maurice Joyce RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Handling Contributor 2nd Nov, 2009 00:02
Score: 11830
Posts: 9,072
User Since: 4th Jan 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: UK
Welcome.

You will note from this thread that this is not new from Kaspersky.

http://secunia.com/community/forum/thread/show/212...

Secunia is a vulnerability checker. Important details of how it works are here:
http://secunia.com/vulnerability_scanning/personal...

It does offer a toolbox where there is a suggested solution to any vulnerabilities found but does not have a "auto fixing tool". Fixing vulnerabilities remains the responsibility of the PC user & programme vendor or by use of this Forum.


You will note from the hyperlink that Kaspersky admit they, like all other general security Companies are not in the business of vulnerability checking.


On that basis I would.

Run a full scan of PSI in the Advanced Mode. Any vulnerabilities found should be investigated & patched. If it shows all aspects of Office 2000 as patched then I would treat them as patched.


Is Kaspersky showing these vulnerabilities as part of a routine viral scan or as a customer advisory?

If an advisory then they are "just passing it on" as explained to @DesertRider on the thread I have provided.


I think Kaspersky are trying to be helpful but it can "muddy the water" when using a dedicated vulnerability checker.

Hope this helps.



--
Maurice

Windows 7 SP1 64 Bit OS
HP Intel Pentium i7
IE 11 for Windows 7 SP1
16GB RAM
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mogs RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Expert Contributor 2nd Nov, 2009 09:50
Score: 2265
Posts: 6,266
User Since: 22nd Apr 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: UK
on 1st Nov, 2009 20:47, eljay376 wrote:
Hi,

I am a new poster here, so please forgive any transgressions until i find my feet.

As well as Secunia PSI, I run Kaspersky Internet Security 2009.

The issue that I have is that whilst a Secunia gives a 100% intergrity score, Kaspersky finds that my Microsoft Office 2000 is not fully patched, citing several http://www.viruslist.com/advisories entries (35377, 29320, 29321, 35364 and 35377) as not being sorted.

When I attempt to download any of these patches, once I OK installation, I get an error message along the lines of "the expected version of the software was not found" (or close to that wording).

Paths are C:\program files\Microsoft Office\office\excel.exe
C:\program files\Microsoft Office\office\winword.exe
C:\program files\Microsoft Office\office\MSO9.DLL
C:\program files\Microsoft Office\office\OUTLLIB.DLL

I would like to know if anyone else has had this problem and has anyone resolved that if there were unpatched items Secunia would have patched them?

Best regards - eljay.

Morning and welcome !
Havn't got your problem....but just a bit curious!
In a nutshell...Kaspersky finds errors but no software?
Secunia finds no software nor errors ?
What contest ?!
Am I getting it right ?


--
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eljay376 RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Member 3rd Nov, 2009 09:41
Score: 0
Posts: 16
User Since: 1st Nov 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: Brighton, UK
Hi both,

Many thanks for taking the time to respond.

I have current 100% system score from Secunia and do appreciate that Secunia PSI is a dedicated piece of software designed to specifically detect system vulnerabilities - whereas Kaspersky is an anti-malware product.

Kaspersky is detecting these issues as "Very Dangerous" when I run a routine scan.

Kaspersky points of the location of the vulnerabilities, along with the Viruslist synopsis of each and a link to where the suggested patches should be found.

The Microsoft Office patches site lists many optional updates and is not particularly easy to use as a result, but I spent a bit of time checking versions, service packs and so on.

Without exception, every patch resulted in that same error message that the expected version of the software was not found - a fact that has got the better of me so far.

I guess the next move is a visit to the Kaspersky Forums.

I will come back here with an outcome.

Best regards - eljay.


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eljay376 RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Member 5th Nov, 2009 14:34
Score: 0
Posts: 16
User Since: 1st Nov 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: Brighton, UK
Right -

I have been over to the Kaspersky Forums and it has been put to me that as Office 2000 is no longer supported with security patches by Microsoft, Secunia is at fault for granting me a 100% current patched status.

Any comment on that would be appreciated.

In the meantime, I have ditched Office 2000 in favour of the free OpenOffice as a consequence.

Best regards - eljay.

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Maurice Joyce RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Handling Contributor 5th Nov, 2009 18:25
Score: 11830
Posts: 9,072
User Since: 4th Jan 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: UK
I believe PSI is correct.

Microsoft Office 2000 extended support expired in July 2009 but it is fully patched vulnerability wise & many on this Forum are still using it successfully & securely.

Microsoft will not release any new Service Packs or enhancemements but will continue to issue security updates provided the user has updated to Office 2000 SP3.


--
Maurice

Windows 7 SP1 64 Bit OS
HP Intel Pentium i7
IE 11 for Windows 7 SP1
16GB RAM
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eljay376 RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Member 8th Nov, 2009 17:02
Score: 0
Posts: 16
User Since: 1st Nov 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: Brighton, UK
Hello again Maurice,

Many thanks for your response.
I can't dispute your opinion.
I must confess that when I knew very little about computers and computing, ignorance was indeed bliss, for as my knowledge grew the more paranoid about security I seem to have become!
Now a silver surfer and certainly much longer in the tooth, I have learned that there is rarely a definitive answer to be had, only exeprienced opinions.
I don't need all that Office 2000 can offer these days; a word processor compatible with MS-Word and the need to produce or edit the occasional spreadsheet it pretty much it - so I guess OpenOffice will fit the bill, until ultimately that to becomes the subject of a security issue by someone.
Many thanks for your much appreciated contribution.

Best regards - eljay.


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michaelsalis RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Member 8th Nov, 2009 17:26
Score: 57
Posts: 141
User Since: 18th Feb 2009
System Score: 98%
Location: UK
Open Office seems to have it's problems recently from the forum, we are not safe anywhere hehe. I like you eljay376 the more I find out the more I think about security.

However, I've come to the conclusion that having a good anti virus program that you are happy with, I use Norton 360 which also covers you for password logging on and advice on the websites you are visiting etc., Spyware and other malware cover, making sure my programs are upto date with security patches and versions with Secunia and something like Filehippo update checker, my Windows, Norton and other anti malware programs have the latest relavant updates, clearing Internet Temp Files and Windows Temp files and the like with something like CCleaner and things like ActiveX and other browser addons and Java are all safe as possible, watching forums such as this one and being careful about where I am visiting what emails I open, all turning me greyer by the day we are a safe as we can be. Oh I forgot about the regular scans and defrags!!!!!

Michael

--
Michael
Toshiba Satelite A660
Intel i7
Windows 7 Ultimate
IE9

Toshiba Equium Laptop
Intel Centrino Duo
Windows Vista Ultimate SP2
IE9
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bjm__ RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Member 8th Nov, 2009 19:26
Score: 64
Posts: 374
User Since: 9th Mar 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: US
Hi eljay
Please excuse my straying off topic. Curious about Kaspersky Virtual Keybd. Gimick or real Keybd protection from the bad guys...does it also protect mouse clicks. Also noticed 2010 Kasperky offers isolated (virtual) area for browsing and apps. Any experience with this.
Thanks
bjm-
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eljay376 RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Member 8th Nov, 2009 20:33
Score: 0
Posts: 16
User Since: 1st Nov 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: Brighton, UK
Hello Michael,

Got you - it's real jungle warfare out there isn't it?
My set up much as yours excepting the Kaspersky (more about that later):
I run SpyBot S&D, not just for the anti-spyware, the Tools section is very useful too; CCleaner; Secunia PSI; Belarc Advisor (shows all the guts of your kit - hardware, software, updates etc); and Privacy Guardian (paid for but similar to CCleaner - just like to make sure all my private stuff has been shredded).
I have been very happy with Kaspersky Internet Security 2009, but there are some fairly radical changes in the 2010 version and the forums are presently carrying a fair bit of grief about substantial browser slow-downs, so I have been looking for a possible replacement.
Norton Internet Security 2010 is contender, but I am so unhappy about the possibility of leaving Kaspersky because it really has a universally good rating and has looked after me very well to date; and while the user interface does not appear that straightforward, it does the job straight out of the box until you've gained a little confidence and perhaps used the Kaspersky Foums a little.

Many thanks for your interest - best regards - eljay.
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eljay376 RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Member 8th Nov, 2009 20:48
Score: 0
Posts: 16
User Since: 1st Nov 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: Brighton, UK
Hello bjm,

Thank you for your interest.

I just tried a little experiment with some keyboard commands, using the mouse-driven Kaspersky Virtual Keyboard and sorry, but they don't seem to work.

However passwords, bank logins, credit card numbers should all be safe from any key loggers (not that Kaspersky would have let them past in the first place!).

Please see my reply to Michael above re my reservations about KIS2010.

My licence renewal doesn't come up for a few weeks yet so I don't have the 2010 edition yet, but you are correct that it does have a "sandbox" facility that provides a virtual environment in which to investigate any doubtful stuff.

Take a look at the Kaspersky Forums Protection for Home Users to gain the current flavour.

Best regards - eljay.
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bjm__ RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Member 8th Nov, 2009 22:00
Score: 64
Posts: 374
User Since: 9th Mar 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: US
Last edited on 8th Nov, 2009 22:08
Hi eljay
Check out http://community.norton.com/norton/ to help you decide. Issues with Norton 2010 products. Norton recently released patch to repair bugs and release introduced more bugs. So,the fix for users that had updated was to uninstall / reinstall to pre patch version. Now, Norton is trying to fix the fix. If you run Firefox..every FF update requires fix from Norton. Norton incorporates two add-ons to FF browser. FF or Norton updates usually break the add-ons. Upset users post to Forum. 09 had same glitches. No onscreen keybd and no sandbox.
I think all security vendors rushed their 10 product release for Win7. If your happy with 09 Kaspersky...why not just renew 09 subscription and hopefully Kaspersky will resolve issues with 10. I assume Kaspersky allows free Upgrade 09 to 10 at any time with valid subscription. If you like Sandbox. Have you tried free version http://sandboxie.com/ to see if compatible with your apps.
Regards
bjm-
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eljay376 RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Member 8th Nov, 2009 22:21
Score: 0
Posts: 16
User Since: 1st Nov 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: Brighton, UK
Hello again bjm,

Many thanks for the form on the Norton product. Sounds like you are right about the rush to catch the new Microsoft release!
I can't say that I have ever refused a next generation upgrade upon renewing and it's posted that KIS2009 is only going to be supported until December 2009 which will take in my own renewal date.
I am still running IE8, but have toyed with the idea of changing to Firefox.
As it's uncharted territory for me, I'm a little wary about the prospect of a smooth transition.
I guess, as the old saying goes, "If it ain't broke, then don't fix it" applies.

All the best - eljay.
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Anthony Wells RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Expert Contributor 9th Nov, 2009 00:04
Score: 2454
Posts: 3,345
User Since: 19th Dec 2007
System Score: N/A
Location: N/A

FWIW , I would agree with bjm ; the "best" protection is the one you understand and which works well on your system ; as you've used the "ain't" thing has already been done , I'll go for "better the devil you know , than one you don't" .

Most of the top rated "suites" are quite close performance wise , your ability to use it/them effectively is what counts .

If you have the time , Ian "Gizmo" Richards has some useful advice on "safe browsing here :-

http://www.techsupportalert.com/how-to-secure-your...

His website is a goldmine of unbiased advice on Freeware programmes of all varieties .

If I was going to change a purchased programme , I would always insist on using a full "free" trial period to check the details before signing up ; you can always change back .

Take care
Anthon

--


It always seems impossible until its done.
Nelson Mandela
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bjm__ RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Member 9th Nov, 2009 00:07
Score: 64
Posts: 374
User Since: 9th Mar 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: US
Last edited on 9th Nov, 2009 00:36
KIS 09 will only be supported till Dec, 2009. What does that mean. If I purchased subscription to KIS09 in June, 2009. I only get 6 months of support for a year subscription. Confused? Norton supports their products for years with renewed subscription and offers free upgrade for 06 product and newer. Norton has (toll free) free 24/7 phone support. Live Chat - email and the best user Forum I've ever experienced. Really heavy duty savvy techie contributors and Norton employees that volunteer to contribute. The Forum is monitored by Symantec. So, unresolved issues get back to Symantec. Must offer that Secunia Forum comes in a very close second.
I went to FF when IE7Pro stopped working with IE8. I don't like the adverts. FF has AdBlockPlus add-on. No adverts. PSI has IE8 vulnerability forever. FF currently has no PSI Security vulnerabilities. I resisted forever dropping Adobe reader even with all the issue. I finally dumped Adobe Reader for Foxit Reader and have no regrets. Sometimes change is a good thing. I ran OSI for awhile...thought why bother with PSI. I installed PSI and it's no bother at all. If I had a nickle for every time I ranted to friends how great PSI is...well, I'd have allot of nickles. Sometimes change is a good thing.
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michaelsalis RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Member 9th Nov, 2009 03:01
Score: 57
Posts: 141
User Since: 18th Feb 2009
System Score: 98%
Location: UK
hi eljay

I have always believed that the programs which each individual likes and works best for them is what they should use especially when it comes to things like anti-virus.

I have used Norton on my personal computers ever since using a computer at home which is more years than I care to remember and have had little trouble. I am currently using Norton 360 not NIS or NAV and find it suits me. Norton 360 does a whole range of things much like you describe for the Kaspersky program you are using. Yes numerous people have problems with it just like others have problems with any program they use, you only have to see the problems some people have with even psi from the forums here.

I think a lot of problems depend what other things you have installed, how you use you computer and how various programs get on with each other rather than a particualr program itself just being crap. A lot of people will not use Norton equally, many will not use Kaspersky or just about any other program you care to mention. The Norton formus are interesting just as this one is.

I hesitate to suggest others using programs which suit me but often mention the ones I use so that others can investigate for themselves. If you are looking at a Norton product may I suggest you look at Norton 360 rather than NIS 2010, v. 4 of 360 is in Beta form at the moment but just use v. 3, you are able to use it for I think 15 days before you have to buy anything.

As Anthony says have a look at Gizmo's Freeware Review which is interesting even if you don't use the programs suggested.

Michael

--
Michael
Toshiba Satelite A660
Intel i7
Windows 7 Ultimate
IE9

Toshiba Equium Laptop
Intel Centrino Duo
Windows Vista Ultimate SP2
IE9
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eljay376 RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Member 9th Nov, 2009 14:38
Score: 0
Posts: 16
User Since: 1st Nov 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: Brighton, UK
Hi Anthony,

Many thanks for your interest and the info link.
I will certainly read that up.
I do agree that it's down to what you feel comfortable with that is important.
It is frustrating though that some malware programs have conflicts with other softwares that might have been anticipated by the vendors before they went public.
Probably you, like me, have spent a lot of time tweaking the best out of your PC, only to find that an upgrade of something that ran quite happily with your existing set-up causes problems.
The most reported problem being posted about KIS2010 is that some folk are experiencing siginificant browser slowing up and absolutely horrifically extended system scan times.
As is pointed out here though, only the people with problems post in the Forums and for you and me there is no way of knowing what kind of percentage of buyers they represent.

Best regards - eljay

PS: I have been experiencing some rejected log-ins here over the last 2 days, so have not been able to post a speedy reply sometimes.

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eljay376 RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Member 9th Nov, 2009 14:59
Score: 0
Posts: 16
User Since: 1st Nov 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: Brighton, UK
Hello again bjm,

I read the reference to the December deadline on the Kaspersky Forums.
I guess that had you gone through the purchase as you describe, one of your updates would ultimately comprise a download of KIS2010?
I have tried to relocate the piece that refers to it but having spent a couple of hours there, leaping about all over the place, I have not been successful yet, (will take another look though).
On the matter of the Firefox browser, I gather subject to system collateral you can run more than one browser, but I would like to be convinced first that this would not be a nightmare to harmonise both with the IE8 Internet Options settings and KIS.
I too have dumped Adobe Reader for Foxit since the apparent neglect of the recent much publicised security holes that were neglected for far too long.
My thanks also go to Secunia PSI. The uncomplicated system audit is a very good example of just how slick system utilities can be.
Many thanks for your interest.

Best regards - eljay.

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Anthony Wells RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Expert Contributor 9th Nov, 2009 15:59
Score: 2454
Posts: 3,345
User Since: 19th Dec 2007
System Score: N/A
Location: N/A

Hello Eljay ,

I am totally non-techie and fairly new to bieng responsible(??) for a PC ; but I do keep two techie friends close to me - I'm not stupid either.

They guided me down the "Sandboxie" , "Firefox" and software firewall paths -NOT everybody's cup of tea - and I couldn't be happier . I was also lucky that my IP carrier "gives" me a powerful hardware firewall in my modem.

I also went the AdAware route , very effective at that time.

My firewall is now a siute (the only thing I pay for ; thanks to a super "deal") and it's Forum lists a huge , ever growing range of software with which it has major clashes !! Believe me , they are not joking .

The reason I mention this is that I have experienced major network slowdown/freezes and "slow" scanning with malware detection software clashes. I believe it is not just A Win7 factor , over time HIPS (behaviour detection) and virus (signature detection) have become "widespread" as "inclusions" and there are clashes galore , as you have noticed when updating a favoured programme.

Over time , I have checked out a lot of malware scanners , I certainly don't/didn't need them all ; but my paranoia dictates that , nowadays ,I keep the "free" versions of Avira , MBAM , SAS and ASquared for on demand (only) scans and they work fine - I think , they only seem to find "false positives" these days (crosses fingers , etc.) :o))

It is important to remember that the bad guys are not after you unless you stick your head up and wave madly and/or ignore the basic safe surfing rules .

Take care and have fun !!
Anthony

--


It always seems impossible until its done.
Nelson Mandela
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bjm__ RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Member 9th Nov, 2009 16:17
Score: 64
Posts: 374
User Since: 9th Mar 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: US
eljay
re > one of your updates would ultimately comprise a download of KIS2010? ___________________________________
I can only assume...upon 09 expiration all users will be upgraded to 10. Easier for K if all users are on the same product. Although, "ultimately comprise" can mean at users option or at K's option?
FF and IE do not compete. System resources is not really an issue. FF is not a resource hog. Only question is if K is compatible with FF. I have to presume ~ Yes. Norton specifies it supports IE and FF only because Norton has components that integrate into the browser.
Issue comes down to user preference. I tried FF, liked it. IE does not go away. IE is available (to user) to apps that require the IE platform. FF has a minor learning curve. If your satisfied with IE then stay with what you know. When K upgrades you'll experience 10 and have ample time to see how it act on your System. I would leave well enough alone for now..run out your subscription w K.
bjm-
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eljay376 RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Member 10th Nov, 2009 14:56
Score: 0
Posts: 16
User Since: 1st Nov 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: Brighton, UK
Last edited on 10th Nov, 2009 15:06
Hello again all,

Firstly, I have to report that i am still having trouble logging in. I have to reset my password each time to be allowed on, as my previously reset passwords don't do the trick
Any ideas about that please?
Hi Anthony - I don't think I've mentioned yet that I am still on XP Home Edition. I'm seeing some bad press about Vista and mention of the next Microsoft offering being already well under way.
What's that all about then - so soon?
I suffered considerable system slow-down with my previous internet security from Trend Micro in 2008, hence the reason to change to Kaspersky.
Certainly I'm also aware of the potential for conflict between softwares. The conflict posted here was that Secunia PSI gave me a clean bill of health, whilst Kaspersky identified a security risk.
This is obviously not an operating conflict - it's a conflict of opinion; with the likes of you and me caught in the middle.
Anyway, OpenOffice hasn't tripped me up yet and the removal of Office has additionally removed the problem, although Kaspersky is presently flagging up some Adobe (Flash Player, was it? - will check it out tonight after looking around here to see it there are other instances).

Thanks for your interest here - eljay.
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eljay376 RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Member 10th Nov, 2009 15:05
Score: 0
Posts: 16
User Since: 1st Nov 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: Brighton, UK
Hello again bjm,

I didn't succeed in locating the particular reference to the termination of KIS2009 support on the Kaspersky Forums last night. It was not the central issue and a search didn't pull anything up.
I saw it when I was checking out my original conflict with my Secunia security rating.
There are several references to users keeping KIS2009 until the present bugs are sorted out.
I would like to think that as they are acknowledging some kind of slow down issues, Kaspersky might entertain keeping up the updated definitions on KIS2009 until the matter is sorted, for all users.

Best regards - eljay.
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Anthony Wells RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Expert Contributor 10th Nov, 2009 17:44
Score: 2454
Posts: 3,345
User Since: 19th Dec 2007
System Score: N/A
Location: N/A
Last edited on 10th Nov, 2009 17:47
Hello Eljay ,

As to logging in , if your profile on PSI matches the login profile here , then it maybe a bug which you need to take up with support@secunia.com . Best I can suggest :(.

I'm also on XP SP3 and until I break it , or until my PC calls it a day , I'll stick with it .

As for Kaspersky vs PSI , Maurice Joyce has already advised and I would certainly agree , if PSi says you're patched then most likely (nothing being 100%) it is correct and KS needs to "prove" otherwise for things like Adobe or whatever . Having said that KIS2010 gets a high rating from the "experts" as far as I can ascertain (FWIW , I like the look of it) so , I think you can probably stay with 09 when you renew and then update when some of the bugs are worked out ; of course not everyone gets them :))

Open Office is good for me too.

We'll get there one day , maybe :))

Take care
Anthony

--


It always seems impossible until its done.
Nelson Mandela
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eljay376 RE: Secunia vs. Kaspersky
Member 10th Nov, 2009 21:43
Score: 0
Posts: 16
User Since: 1st Nov 2009
System Score: N/A
Location: Brighton, UK
Last edited on 10th Nov, 2009 21:45
Hello again Anthony,

A further change of log-in details to get back up here!
Yes I agree, if I try and tread water until the bugs are ironed out, I can stay on with the choice that I like.
I guess if you are kept damage free for 2 years, it must count for something eh?
KIS is adequately configured "out of the box" - it's only when you gain a bit of confidence that you feel the need to tweak it a little.
Not tonight - but soon, I shall contact support to ask about my logging-in problems.
I guess I should let this thread go now, but before signing off I would like to thank all who have contributed to an enjoyable (and very friendly) bit of dialogue - I have posted on some forums where the tone is distinctly icy from the start, which can be very off-putting to the not-so-expert folk amongst us.

Hope to see some of you again the next time I pass this way.

Best wishes to all - eljay.
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