Secunia CSI7
Advisories
Research
Forums
Create Profile
Our Commitment
PSI
PSI API
CSI
OSI
xSI
Vulnerabilities
Programs
Open Discussions
My Threads
Create Thread
Statistics
About

Forum Thread: Let's encourage new members!

You are currently viewing a forum thread in the Secunia Community Forum. Please note that opinions expressed here are not of Secunia but solely reflect those of the user who wrote it.

This thread was submitted in the following forum:
Open Discussions

This thread has been marked as locked.
taffy078 Let's encourage new members!
Contributor 7th Aug, 2010 17:28
Ranking: 408
Posts: 1,322
User Since: 26th Feb, 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: UK
Just imagine you have Vista. Just imagine that you are about to instal SP2.

Just imagine that someone says to you "have a look at that Secunia PSI site - it's brilliant, with lots of helpful people."

Just imagine that you're sooloow1 and you post at 6th Aug, 2010 07:25 in this thread:
http://secunia.com/community/forum/thread/show/498...

sooloow1 has moreorless said what I posted at 7th Aug, 2010 09:41
in this thread: http://secunia.com/community/forum/thread/show/489...

I did cringe when I read that thread (& the other one on C++) and saw what I might have to go through: if some of our very experienced members had problems, what chance would I have? I was lucky, thanks to the changes made by Secunia to the detection etc rules.

So, soolow1 felt as I did. What happened next? Someone (or more than one) gave minus 3 marks! Why? Nit-picking nonsense, in my opinion.

There are three basic factors for Secunia PSI forum to continue to grow, in my view:
(1) An excellent company/product - yes!
(2) Members with outstanding technical expertise, capable of resolving 99% of problems and knowing where to point to for the other 1% - YES! and, of course
(3) members with problems - the customer. Without them - and their problems - the rest is irrelevant!

So - imagine you are soolow1, a member for only one day. You have been impressed by what you read and you say so. You will not have seen any house rules saying "do not dare comment unless it is relevant".
What happens next? You 'start your Secunia account' with MINUS THREE MARKS.

We should empathise, encourage and at times just chat nicely to someone with a problem until an expert comes along to help. This nit-picking discouraging attitude/scoring is hardly likely to attract new people - more likely to turn them away, in fact.

I have given soolow1 one plus-point. If you agree with me, please give him/her another two so he/she gets back to Nil.

--
taffy078, West Yorkshire, UK

Desktop: Compaq Presario (OEM) 32 bit / AMD Athlon / 2 GB RAM
XP Home - SP3/ IE8/ Norton IS - Secunia PSI v2.0.0.3003

Laptop: Win 7 / IE11 / PSI v2.0.0.3003

taffy078 RE: Let's encourage new members!
Contributor 7th Aug, 2010 17:30
Score: 408
Posts: 1,322
User Since: 26th Feb 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: UK
Last edited on 7th Aug, 2010 17:30
PS If you disgree with me, give me the minus marks. I come here to try to help others - in my limited way; my score is irrelevant in that respect.

PPS If you agree with me - and soolow1 is now at NIL - please just post saying you agree with me. It's about time we stopped discouraging new members.

Sermon over!

Have a great weekend. ;0)

--
taffy078, West Yorkshire, UK

Desktop: Compaq Presario (OEM) 32 bit / AMD Athlon / 2 GB RAM
XP Home - SP3/ IE8/ Norton IS - Secunia PSI v2.0.0.3003

Laptop: Win 7 / IE11 / PSI v2.0.0.3003
Was this reply relevant?
+2
-2
Anthony Wells RE: Let's encourage new members!
Expert Contributor 7th Aug, 2010 17:51
Score: 2434
Posts: 3,317
User Since: 19th Dec 2007
System Score: N/A
Location: N/A
Last edited on 7th Aug, 2010 17:59
Hello taffy ,

I don't follow your logic and you are reading a huge amount into Soolow1 's post , very imaginative , I must say. I read it as a newcomer wanting to say Hi , updating is complex , so glad I don't have a problem . Not relevant to the thread and a lot of people can be mean nitpickers !!

That's life we have to deal with it , everyone uses his own methods to his own ends . I absolutely don't care about votes , but I've put +2 onto Soolow1 to keep you both happy , I hope .

OH!! to be really fair do I deduct 2 from you now to keep my records as neutral as possible :o)))

I'm a life long supporter of the underdog , but let's keep things in proportion .

Other things to do . Drinks to drink , fish to fry , lemons to squeeze .

Take care

Anthony

PS : on a serious point , if one of your "experts" does not come along , don't leave the thread hanging ; only by pure chance did I spot @NormanS !! Do you think we should follow you around to all your many posts to see if ""teccie" or even "non-teccie" help is needed ??

--


It always seems impossible until its done.
Nelson Mandela
Was this reply relevant?
+2
-0
thedillpickl RE: Let's encourage new members!
Contributor 7th Aug, 2010 18:10
Score: 376
Posts: 872
User Since: 3rd May 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: US
Hi taf;

I too think that overreacting is possible. Soolow1's post was irrelevant, IMO one of two should have happened: 1) Totally ignore his post, not give -points. 2) Someone should take time to explain what's going on (preferred).

I'm trying to be calm, cool & collected when responding to first time posters. I remember that I have posted foolish thoughts and butted in where unwelcome myself.


Fred

--
XP Home
Chrome, Firefox, IE8
--
consilio et animis
Was this reply relevant?
+0
-0

mogs

RE: Let's encourage new members!
[+]
This reply has been minimised due to a negative Relevancy Score.
taffy078 RE: Let's encourage new members!
Contributor 7th Aug, 2010 21:53
Score: 408
Posts: 1,322
User Since: 26th Feb 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: UK
on 7th Aug, 2010 17:51, Anthony Wells wrote:
Hello taffy ,

I don't follow your logic and you are reading a huge amount into Soolow1 's post , very imaginative , I must say.

Someone's first post should be welcomed, Anthony - by a hug, or an explanation as Fred suggests - but not by a kick in the teeth!


on 7th Aug, 2010 17:51, Anthony Wells wrote:

PS : on a serious point , if one of your "experts" does not come along , don't leave the thread hanging ; only by pure chance did I spot @NormanS !! Do you think we should follow you around to all your many posts to see if ""teccie" or even "non-teccie" help is needed ??


Someone posts a problem - I know that you & other experts will need more info so I get the ball rolling for you. How do I 'not leave the thread hanging'? NormanS said he was very happy & thanked everyone so I don't see a problem.

Perhaps there should be an on-line equivalent of a "To Do" whiteboard? ;0)

Better still, and as Mogs intimated, there should be a sticky for newcomers -explaining in more detail the procedures here and where they must look for advice etc.

--
taffy078, West Yorkshire, UK

Desktop: Compaq Presario (OEM) 32 bit / AMD Athlon / 2 GB RAM
XP Home - SP3/ IE8/ Norton IS - Secunia PSI v2.0.0.3003

Laptop: Win 7 / IE11 / PSI v2.0.0.3003
Was this reply relevant?
+1
-0
Anthony Wells RE: Let's encourage new members!
Expert Contributor 7th Aug, 2010 22:33
Score: 2434
Posts: 3,317
User Since: 19th Dec 2007
System Score: N/A
Location: N/A

Hello taffy ,

I don't see where or how your first point implicates me - unless you have some aspect of my approach you feel needs correction ; I was referring to your imagination not @Soolow1's supposed slight .

Your second part misses my point entirely ; so I'll restate it to be clear :-

If you cannot answer a problem initially leave it to someone who can ; after a while/sometime if no one has taken up the challenge by all means offer warmth , hugs , comfort - even a nice Champagne - keep the punter happy in your inimitable way .

Your post to @NormanS - promising help soon was left hanging for well over 24 hours ; if I had not lucked onto it when would you have followed it up ?? Were was your "post it" ??

I have always said (here , on one of your previous threads) we don't know if this is a wonderful Forum spreading lightness and joy , reports seem to indicate that a lot of people feel intimidated to post - although , probably more so on other Forums .

The Forum does not need to "grow" , it needs to learn how to deal with all the manner of persons and problems that the IT world can throw at it . .

I do believe -ve voting has a numbing effect ; even I have noticed my score go (wildly:)) up and down on a daily basis recently ; a fight between good and evil :i((:o)) and which is which (ask Nietzsche) - depends.... So what ??

I am not convinced that being overwhelmed by an enthusiastic "triager" is what a newcomer to the Forum needs , especially if the response is not relevant to the post or leaves them up in the air/lying on an unattended stretcher waiting for ...heaven knows who or what .

Time is afoot and I am away . A balmy night to be indulged .

Take care

Anthony



--


It always seems impossible until its done.
Nelson Mandela
Was this reply relevant?
+3
-0
mogs RE: Let's encourage new members!
Expert Contributor 8th Aug, 2010 00:14
Score: 2265
Posts: 6,266
User Since: 22nd Apr 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: UK
A failure to post or to plead....maybe it's caused by feeling intimidated or bullied....it could be interpreted or translated as a lack of confidence by the lawyer, judge , referee, middleperson ( non sexist term agreed ?!); or some degree of friend ? But a dog is supposed to bark, not yap ? It depends on the circumstances or the breed ? But a vetinary psychologist may be more able to read the ins and outs of a cat ?
Secunia may be different to lots of other forums.....some may be more or less security concious or related: but not encompass involvement with virtually all other third party software ? Personal still means personal ? It's very likely someone could be tapping on a lappy sat on a park bench or with all mod cons on a stretcher.....my lines don't have too much elasticity ?! They might not have a friend called Micky or Saladin ?!
I'm not known for being highly imaginative about ghosts or threats ?!
Have any of your mates lost an eye, foot, leg, arm or finger ? Have they been traumatized or become a drinker ?! One minute "that's life and squeezing lemons ": next it's all kinds of aids, after stretchers. Ups and downs in scores...there's sometimes injuries in sport.....where's the half way line ?! Take up your bed and walk ?!
Not everybody gets a second chance to learn to read ? Confidentially ? Is Eve ill ever ?!

--
Was this reply relevant?
+1
-1
thedillpickl RE: Let's encourage new members!
Contributor 8th Aug, 2010 01:23
Score: 376
Posts: 872
User Since: 3rd May 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: US
Last edited on 8th Aug, 2010 01:33
Hi all;

on 7th Aug, 2010 21:38, mogs wrote:
We wouldn't be doing this at all if we didn't have an inclination to help; ...

The whole point in half a sentence!!

Remember please, we (the regular posters) are not nursemaids, meant by Secunia to coddle nor endear first time visitors to the forum. Straightforward but kind instructions on forum usage, if needed. (i.e. Posting in vulnerabilities, "I got that too!") Then straightforward advice to help solve the problem. Fill in the gaps by others interjecting with, "Did you consider this..." or "I have seen that...". Topped off with, addressing secondary concerns or other points of interest. Do not assume someone asking a question here is unknowledgeable, I have made that mistake myself. It's an awkward situation to back out of and still provide help.

That said, if required, be the nursemaid and talk them through, step by step, being reassuring all the way. A "What ever it takes." mentality helps.

on 7th Aug, 2010 21:53, taffy078 wrote:
... Someone posts a problem - I know that you & other experts will need more info so I get the ball rolling for you. How do I 'not leave the thread hanging'? NormanS said he was very happy & thanked everyone so I don't see a problem. ...

Not to rub a sore spot, but... I too overlooked the NormanS thread at first. I have been attempting to get on forum more of late, but there are several 'techie' (if you like to call them that) helpers that are on and off. If unsure of how to help, please let the helper that can, ask "who, what, when & where". If you respond to someone and end up not being able to help, you should at least try to find someone who can. Post your own thread saying, "Help me!", that should get attention.

> The first thing I do when coming to the forum is look for any thread with zero replies, starting with the 'second' page, that is more than twenty four hours old. (Older than 48hrs. I figure they gave up & went elsewhere.)
> If it's 'day old', I'll attempt to help, even if I haven't a clue what they're talking about. If for no other reason than to suggest Secunia support.
> If less than twenty four, I reason whether I can 1) understand the problem, 2) know about the problem, or 3) have had the problem. I may only reply with, "Let me look into this" and have to research like crazy. If they have been waiting several hours for a reply, I will try my best.
> If the thread is only two or three hours old and I'm unsure or it's an OS, program, etc. I'm unfamiliar with and It's not 3:27am your time, I try to leave it alone.
> After all that, then I go back through to pick up threads, with previous replies, that I may [or may not :( ] have useful input for.

Note about above: I have not always followed my own suggestions & apologize for that. I'm only saying what I think. No one is perfect, it would be nice to try for though.

A last thought, play to your audience, read (edit: and understand) what they've written before you respond (I learned that the hard way) and don't try to be a friend unless one is required (professional types like to keep it that way).

Fire at will, I've got armor on.


Yours;

Fred

--
XP Home
Chrome, Firefox, IE8
--
consilio et animis
Was this reply relevant?
+1
-0
taffy078 RE: Let's encourage new members!
Contributor 8th Aug, 2010 07:17
Score: 408
Posts: 1,322
User Since: 26th Feb 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: UK
Last edited on 8th Aug, 2010 07:26
on 7th Aug, 2010 17:51, Anthony Wells wrote:

PS : on a serious point , if one of your "experts" does not come along , don't leave the thread hanging ; only by pure chance did I spot @NormanS !! Do you think we should follow you around to all your many posts to see if ""teccie" or even "non-teccie" help is needed ??


on 7th Aug, 2010 21:53, taffy078 wrote:
Someone posts a problem - I know that you & other experts will need more info so I get the ball rolling for you. How do I 'not leave the thread hanging'?


Anthony: on this aspect, you were right & I was wrong. I apologise to you. Where I went wrong with NormanS was not asking for more info - I was wrong to acknowledge him when he posted the info that was needed. Had I not done that, you guys would have picked up the problem earlier.

Anthony: you said "If you cannot answer a problem initially leave it to someone who can". No-one could have helped NormanS from his first post. There was not enough info. This happens regularly, hence my response asking for more info.
I will learn from my mistake. For the future, I'll not say another word when that info arrives and it's a problem that I can't resolve.

You also said "especially if the response is not relevant to the post". If you mean my second post, you are right. My first reponse was relevant, imho.

Fred: you said "we (the regular posters) are not nursemaids, meant by Secunia to coddle nor endear first time visitors to the forum." I agree but, surely, giving a new poster minus-marks sends out entirely the wrong message - it could be construed as driving them away.

Both you & Anthony have been constructive in your comments, as has Mogs.

No armour is needed, just a glass of Mogs' Fursty Ferret.

I imagine that two or three dozen others have viewed this thread. It would be great to see what they think. Please get posting - do tell us! :0)

EDIT - typos.

--
taffy078, West Yorkshire, UK

Desktop: Compaq Presario (OEM) 32 bit / AMD Athlon / 2 GB RAM
XP Home - SP3/ IE8/ Norton IS - Secunia PSI v2.0.0.3003

Laptop: Win 7 / IE11 / PSI v2.0.0.3003
Was this reply relevant?
+2
-0
taffy078 RE: Let's encourage new members!
Contributor 8th Aug, 2010 07:37
Score: 408
Posts: 1,322
User Since: 26th Feb 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: UK



P.S.

on 7th Aug, 2010 22:33, Anthony Wells wrote:
I do believe -ve voting has a numbing effect ; even I have noticed my score go (wildly:)) up and down on a daily basis recently ; a fight between good and evil :i((:o)) and which is which (ask Nietzsche) - depends.... So what ??

My score fluctuates too. When it changes I always try to see where I have "got it right" or wrong! That's part of my learning curve.

But I find today that my score has dropped - even though I have more 'plus' marks than 'minus' marks on my posts since last night.

I'm sure no-one would score older/locked posts so it looks as if the Secunia computer has thrown a wobbly?

--
taffy078, West Yorkshire, UK

Desktop: Compaq Presario (OEM) 32 bit / AMD Athlon / 2 GB RAM
XP Home - SP3/ IE8/ Norton IS - Secunia PSI v2.0.0.3003

Laptop: Win 7 / IE11 / PSI v2.0.0.3003
Was this reply relevant?
+1
-0
thedillpickl RE: Let's encourage new members!
Contributor 8th Aug, 2010 08:23
Score: 376
Posts: 872
User Since: 3rd May 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: US
Hi taf;

on 8th Aug, 2010 07:17, taffy078 wrote:
... Fred: you said we (the regular posters) are not nursemaids, meant by Secunia to coddle nor endear first time visitors to the forum. . I agree but, surely, giving a new poster minus-marks sends out entirely the wrong message! ...

That's why my very next sentence was:

on 8th Aug, 2010 01:23, thedillpickl wrote:
... Straightforward but kind instructions on forum usage, if needed. ...


It upsets me when when someone is given negative points when they didn't know any better. I'm happy to warn people when they wander into the vulnerabilities threads or such. If I take a hit, so be it. That's not to say people should post willy nilly.

I'm as guilty as anyone at going where I don't belong or posting wrong info (I try not to do that). Perhaps I'm given some latitude because I've been around awhile (don't know if that's fair) or if people tolerate it because "it's just dumb ol' Fred".However, I do believe if someone replies to a thread, even if it's just to "get the ball rolling", they have a certain amount of responsibility to see that help is given. If not by them, then by someone else. Ask for help if no one responds to the thread within a reasonable amount of time.

Alternatively, you have learned quite a bit & given excellent advice before. Take up the mantle and assess the situation*. If you understand the question but don't have an answer, try a Google search. If you make a mistake, just make sure they don't trash a hard drive or corrupt their OS! Be certain not to give advise that can do permanent harm unless you know it's right.

Your up early & I'm going to bed.


Good Morning or Night (depending on which side of the solar terminator you're on);

Fred

*I helped this fellow, but had no idea what these games were or how they worked. I Googled and found the info. He just wanted someone to confirm what he suspicioned about launcher.exe . See the tail end of his last post,

"Hi thedillpickl

(him quoting me)
'The two games appear to use the same launcher.exe , this would not be uncommon.'

That's what i thought.".

http://secunia.com/community/forum/thread/show/499...

--
XP Home
Chrome, Firefox, IE8
--
consilio et animis
Was this reply relevant?
+1
-0
taffy078 RE: Let's encourage new members!
Contributor 8th Aug, 2010 10:24
Score: 408
Posts: 1,322
User Since: 26th Feb 2009
System Score: 100%
Location: UK
thank you Fred. Sleep tight!!

--
taffy078, West Yorkshire, UK

Desktop: Compaq Presario (OEM) 32 bit / AMD Athlon / 2 GB RAM
XP Home - SP3/ IE8/ Norton IS - Secunia PSI v2.0.0.3003

Laptop: Win 7 / IE11 / PSI v2.0.0.3003
Was this reply relevant?
+0
-0

This thread has been marked as locked.


 Products Solutions Customers Partner Resources Company
 
 Corporate
Vulnerability Intelligence Manager (VIM)
Corporate Software Inspector (CSI)
Consumer
Personal Software Inspector (PSI)
Online Software Inspector (OSI)
 Industry
Compliance
Technology
Integration
 Customers
Testimonials
 VARS
MSSP
Technology Partners
References
 Reports
Webinars
Events
 About us
Careers
Memberships
Newsroom


 
© 2002-2014 Secunia ApS - Rued Langgaards Vej 8, 4th floor, DK-2300 Copenhagen, Denmark - +45 7020 5144
Terms & Conditions and Copyright - Privacy - Report Vulnerability